5 Loaves & 2 Fishes

I am looking for a group of people whose sole purpose in this world is to reflect the love of God to everyone they encounter. These people will have no agendas of their own. They will live by the teachings of the Bible: specifically the fruit of the Spirit, the Sermon on the Mount, the beliefs and teachings of the Apostle Paul, Peter, James and John. They will search the entire bible for direction and be willing to share what they learn with others.

I want no pretence, no competition, no back biting... These people will not be perfect and sometimes they will slip and fall at which time the rest of the group will help them back up. They will put love before doctrine and at all times think of others before themselves.

Well, it's a thought....

Amen!

These people will not be afraid to take a candid look within themselves. They will root out the flaws that keep them from being all they can be from God's perspective. They will see me working to overcome fear, pride, anger, bitterness, a judgemental, critical attitude. They will realize that they are powerless to do anything apart from the Holy Spirit. They will apply the Word of God to their everyday lives as they draw closer and closer to Him. There is so much more...

Anyone else ready to get their feet wet here?

JTM, I'm not sure if this topic will go anywhere, but I realize that if it does it should be moved to a different forum. I'm not sure where but you may have some ideas. Abby

Not sure where it should go, but I'll definitely think about it.

In the meantime, you might want to check out Mere Churchianity, by the late Michael Spencer. Especially check out Part 4: The Jesus Community (chapter's 15-18). Michael takes a look at the state of the evangelical church today and why we often can't find community (or Jesus, for that matter) there. He then goes on to offer some suggestions as to how to find such a community.

Best part is, he doesn't do it as on who has made it, but like Paul, he writes as a fellow seeker who is still on the journey.

Unfortunately his journey ended, due to brain cancer, on 04 April 2010. But his legacy continues, both in his one book and on his blog, which others who are true to his vision are carrying on. Check it out at: Internet Monk

JtM

Theoretically, this topic should be one for the Fellowship Forum which is what I'm advocating. However, I want to go deeper than the usual chit chat (which is not unimportant but can be superficial when God is calling us to go deeper). I'm not sure if very many here will pick up on it at this point and obviously the Forum is designed for all Christians to spend time in forums that interest them.

I've been following your thread on Michael Spencer, James, and am in agreement. I would consider interacting with those on the related blogs, but feel that somehow it lacks the intimacy of the smaller groups that we could have here.

Hi Sister Abby

Greetings

Hmmm....interesting proposal but l have one question -

Would there be conflict due to the different understanding of the Bible? For everyone has his\her own understanding too.

Just a thought? and obviously, crazy kueh is interested to be inclusive if possible...

God bless

Good question Kueh! I know you are a mature Christian brother as are many here, so I'm not suggesting that I need to inform you or others of something they already know. Somewhere along the line of old teaching, many of us missed the mark on what it's really all about. When we come to an understanding of Who Jesus is, Who God is, Who the Holy Spirit is in relation to who we are in Christ, there will be no more need for arguing over interpretations of His Word. There is ABSOLUTE TRUTH in God's Word which was written as God speaking to us and on down the generations until He returns. We will all have varying opinions because we are unique individuals with many different backgrounds and understandings. We know that we will not come to perfection until He returns, but there will be no argument regarding the essentials of Christian doctrine (God created the world and everything in it, He sent His one and only Son as an atonement for sin, He died and rose again and ascended into heaven. He appeared on earth in person after His death. Anyone who believes on Him and the foregoing message has eternal life through grace alone. Works are for manifesting His Love in our life and have nothing to do with eternal life. He will return - when and how is not important if we are securely abiding in Him). I will borrow from notreligus's post on the Philips interpretation of Colossians 1:15-20 "Now Christ is the visible expression of the invisible God. He existed before creation began, for it was through him that every thing was made, whether spiritual or material, seen or unseen. Through him, and for him, also, were created power and dominion, ownership and authority. In fact, every single thing was created through, and for him. He is both the first principle and the upholding principle of the whole scheme of creation. And now he is the head of the body which is composed of all Christian people. Life from nothing began through him, and life from the dead began through him, and he is, therefore, justly called the Lord of all. It was in him that the full nature of God chose to live, and through him God planned to reconcile in his own person, as it were, everything on earth and everything in Heaven by virtue of the sacrifice of the cross. (Phillips)"

If we were to follow a creed (which I think is important in that it gives us structure for what we believe in, this passage would be it - maybe - well, its also a thought)


Sometimes I think all the arguments over this doctrine or that doctrine are but smoke screens and hindrances to really getting to know God. We think if we get truth on this or that doctrine, somehow it makes us holy. (see 1 Timothy 1:6) This amounts to US telling others what WE think. I have now come to the point of 'who cares what I think' outside of the truth.

So to try to answer your question, there will be discussions on biblical interpretation, but our first goal must be that we truly know that the Holy Spirit is alive in us and if we first consult Him (no matter how long it takes), we are better able to speak on our biblical beliefs. As long as we have an agenda of what we want to convince others is the right or wrong doctrine or interpretation, we are not of God.

I truly believe that 1 John 4:8 is true of many christians today. They have a knowledge of God and the bible but they have not made the spiritual connection necessary for God to live supernaturally through them. God wants all men to come to Him and to bring mankind into reconciliation with Himself through Love, not correct doctrine. This can only happen when we are willing to drop our petty denominational lines and find out Who He Is.

So this group that I am looking for will have lots of questions that don't involve doctrine per se. Questions like:

1. What is love? Do I have it? If not what am I going to do to get it, and more importantly give it? Is it love as the world knows it that I'm seeking or is it God's Love for all of humanity that I want to be a part of?

Do I love God? Does He love me? Do I 'really' love others? Where is 'myself and my flesh' going to fit into all of this?

2. Who is the Holy Spirit? Is he alive and functioning in me and if not, why not and how can this be brought to pass?

3. How can I be an overcomer? What do I need to overcome?

4. What are my strengths, my weaknesses, etc.

5. How can I grow to rich, authentic, victorious, freedom in Christ?

If anyone wants to join this group, those are the initiation questions. All of the answers are in the bible in many different books. In fact the answer is the thread that runs through from Genesis to Revelation.

If anyone isn't interested in the questions or finding answers, but rather only in discussing methods of baptism, communion, denominations and their denominatonal faults or strengths, etc. then they are not ready to join the group. Boundaries would have to be set which would not exclude anyone, but would exclude subjects that open a door to discussions that divide.

Does that even begin to answer your question Kueh?

Well, sister Abby

Excellent answer! Now, l got u completely.

For myself, l have always been living with this verse as my principle belief -

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Kueh is a firm believer of the indwelling Holy Spirit of God at works in our lives.

And l will quote from sister Vicki - l am a nomad Christian belonging to no church or believing in denominations. Rather affirm those who stood by this Truth -

Ephesians 4:4-6 (New International Version)

There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Count me in if l am of service!

God bless

I think this guy started that group back in the middle ages.



Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury,pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.


O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Amen

There are societies of St. Francis in other denoms besides the Catholic Church.

Here's one from the Anglican for instance.

Hi George,

St. Francis is very high on my list of admirable historical Christians. Probably every generation has bred a number of greats.

This group I'm looking for is very much alive and seeking to be God's representative in our modern world rather than patterning after someone from the past (other than Jesus Himself). We all have the 'stuff' within us to co-relate to one another with our hearts open to the Holy Spirit.

I'm not looking to start another Order of St Francis group nor become St. Abby of the Fishes in case any of you are wondering...(heaven forbid).

Thanks for the input George. It helps me to clarify to others what I'm trying to say.

Glad to count you among the first to join. Still not sure where we will hold these meetings But isn't it awesome that we can talk about this with people from every part of the globe. Still a number of people here who are probably wondering who and what I think I am!

Hi sister Abby

Greetings

lt does not matter when u hold the meeting...just keep me inform.

Still a number of people here who are probably wondering who and what I think I am!

Well, when l read your post, it was just the prompting in me to ask u a dumb question to ensure that it does not end up as any public forum discussion would be. l m sure the Lord will guide and lead. Personally, it is always rejuvenating to serve in one way or another for the Lord. After all, we are all His servants; called to serve, not be served

l have a group of friends who are with my wife n l into serving the Lord in the manner as you have written; no question about doctrine but just reach out into the world and make an introduction of Jesus and His Father through the love we have received from the Father After years into this, l was gently surprise to read your post and was saying to myself - "Hey, here is a sister who is moving in a good direction in the love of Christ and l should be there! Ha..." Amen to this, sister Abby




God bless

Thank you Kueh.

LOVE

We all want to be loved and accepted. True godly love is a process that is not often followed in our society today. We want to be loved so we try to be loving and when that love isn't returned we are often disillusioned. We talk about the necessity of loving God, but what I didn't catch the first time around is that we CAN'T love God unless we receive His love first. 1 John 4:19 says that we are to love God because He first loved us. But if we have never received that love (if we don't feel worthy of that love) then we cannot love God because we can't give away something we've never received, not even to God.

Count me in.

Great Andy! Looks like my 'ad' is getting good results. (Now James, its time for me to read more of The Internet Monk to see if he mentions advertising in this way)

Seriously though, more than anything the group I'm looking to belong to will keep me accountable and be open to accountability in the same way. Not in a legalistic way, but because we are still subject to our flesh and without someone willing to help keep us accountable, we can easily fall into old thought patterns, allow old resentments to creep back in, make thoughtless remarks that can be misunderstood, etc.

(Someone stop me if I'm becoming one of those monopolizing posters who enjoys listening to her own words.)

I have a confession to make! I've just now taken the time to really read the post 'Mere Churchianity'! I think it is absolutely dumbfounding how God works. Here He has James and Ray in California, posting on their findings and dissatisfaction with the church today and somewhere over in Canada a 'seed' is germinating along the same lines. Then there's Kueh in Singapore, Simba (somewhere in the desert ), Vicki in Scotland, and many who have yet to be counted in, all on the same page. For those, I believe caution is wise - afterall, we are not called to jump on just every bandwagon that comes along.

I'm sure if I did a 'google' search, I would find that there are thousands of us thinking along these lines. I could join up with some of them, but it's here at 5L2F that I have felt at home over the past 2 and one half years.

Well, sister Abby

l stayed at 5L2F cos Gideon has been supplying the loaves n fishes n they come FREE!!

God bless

Accountability is a misunderstood commodity, sometimes. To me, it means the freedom to talk (about anything that may be bothering one) with brothers and sisters in a safe, loving environment. Being vulnerable is risky business, but great risk is often accompanied by great reward.

Definitely, we should be able to trust each other enough to be able to talk freely knowing that this will be held in confidence and we won't be gossipped about behind our backs or judged by others. We can only hold each accountable to the highest level that we have allowed ourselves to be accountable to God, right? The 'log in our own eye' attitude.

The way I look at 'accountability' is, if I say one thing and act in contradiction to what I've said, I should not be irritated if a brother points that out to me in a gentle, loving, manner. This would be for correction and being accountable from a biblical perspective.

Proverbs 1:3 says "Receive instruction in wise dealing and in discipline of wise thoughtfulness, righteousness, justice and integrity". Vs. 4 goes on to say that its good for the youth and vs. 5 says, "The wise also hear and increase learning, and the person of understanding will acquire skill and attain to sound counsel (so that) he may be able to steer his course rightly. (See also Proverbs 9:9).

How many people sit in church every week but just can't get over 'the nasties' (the bad attitudes that somehow they are superior to others and look down their noses at someone who has been taught a wrong doctrine and needs loving direction from the Holy Spirit to see the error of their thinking, just one example)? Our hearts have to be purified before the Holy Spirit can begin a never ending work in us.

Purify my heart Let me be as gold and precious silver. Refiner's Fire, my heart's one desire is to be Holy, set apart for you my Master - ready to do your will.

Brian Doerksen